Episode #159 ^{_{(Click to Listen)}}

With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
With special guest: Julie

(M) I think the thing I wanted to show though, is how the scripture makes it simple, ‘take it off’. It’s as simple as taking off a garment. Because it’s done, that’s what I wanted to convey. Did that, did that come out?
(Someone in background) Yes.
(M) Well, in our little sitting by the fire, I think you, John, realized that you didn’t believe that you were operating in the new man, when Carole and I could tell you, you were. You went up to someone we know who came to the conference, and I’m sure you hugged her.  When you walked away she was literally hit with the power of the Spirit, and wept at the Spirit on you. And you were completely amazed. And I told you that you operate in the new man so much of the time, that there’s no way you could love, support, sublimate yourself to God’s calling, apart from the new man. And your struggle was…
(J) Well, you know something, this is so diabolical that I saw this; it’s so diabolical. The old man was telling me, ok, there’s your schizophrenic; the old man was telling me that the new man’s activity was actually the old man. So I was believing that the endurance, the energy, the long suffering of the new man, was actually the obsessive compulsive drive of the old man.
(M) This is the way you said it. I wrote it down. “The enemy was trying to convince you that the new man was the old man, that what you were doing was the energy of the old man. And so you were completely shocked when Carole and I began to tell you that we see the new man. And you had not had… Well, and I told you this.  It’s because when you’re in the new man you’re not aware of yourself.  You’re just going. That’s the wonder of the new man.  The focus of the new man of Christ in you is God.  And the old man is always focused on the self.
(J) Yeah, that’s what you were saying, you were saying when you are self aware, you can know that you are in the old man.
(M) Umhmm.
(J) I mean that’s quite a statement. Because how often are we self aware? What I feel, how that makes me, you know, hurt or whatever. When we are all involved with me, me, me, I, we can know that we’re in the old man.
(M) Hmhmm.
(J) So I just think about how diabolical that is for the old man to convince the new man… And you know, there’s the whole soul realm of that. You know, the new man’s going...
(M) Hmhmm, easy.
(J) Easy. The new Life, Christ’s Life in me is moving. The hindrance is how I’m dragging the old man’s thoughts behind it. And…
(M) And it’s the accuser giving you the lie that you haven’t made it yet, John.  You’re motivated by the old man. That was basically what it was, that you were motivated by the instincts of the old man, but they are not. So the enemy gets you on yourself, and then you lose your life. But, here’s the deal. Here’s the thing.
(J) Here’s what happened.
(M) Yeah. (Martha and John laugh) When you say yes to your history, your history will disappear, your old man. It’s like in Paul’s writings it’s so clear. He was not bound by the activities of the old man. He’s the one who explained it to us. His old man was poof, gone, dead. It was irrelevant for Paul. So what… He murdered the saints, and caused their murder. It’s not that he didn’t care; it’s that it was irrelevant, because it was past. And this, I think I wrote this when we were around the fire, “The new man is the only reality for the believer, because it is the only reality.” When something is dead it is no longer with us, real, it no longer exists, it no longer has any effect; “you are crucified with Christ, you no longer live. And the life I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God.” So the clarity of that, of the old man and the new man, is the light that’s blazing on us right now. And it was the message.  Well, it was leading up to the message.
(J) You said the new man is the only reality for the believer. Did you just say that?
(M) Say it again, you got it, you got it.
(J) Well I’m just, it’s the new man, the reality. My reality was of my soul, but it’s a putting off of that soul life, and the beliefs of the soul life. You just think about the level of what Christ had to pay to put that down. He had to die brutally. It just shows you how horrible it is, the old man, and it’s because it is hostile from Adam through, hostile. Why are we shocked? Isn’t that what brother Lawrence said?
(M) “Knowing the nature of man, I’m shocked that it isn’t even worse.” But he got that from knowing himself. Someone I know has said, I don’t want to see how wretched I am. So the old man still is in residence. You have to see that old man I’m sorry, wretched. But we want to make the old man a servant of God, who cannot be. We want to live in the old man and change him, ever, ever hopeful that I can make myself into a servant of God.
(J) Preserve the old life; make it serve God.
(M) But the reason is, we want something for self. The reason is, the old man wants, lusts. I think it was the Jerusalem Bible, but I never have been able to find it again, but years ago I read a translation that said ‘the mind lusts for knowledge’. The mind lusts for everything. All of our lust comes from our thinking. And the thinking is the old man.
(J) And, if the old man was allowed to perform and serve, it would boast in itself and glory in itself. It would take it onto itself. And then… I mean that is counter to the call.
(M) Umhmm. Do you feel like you could talk about the ‘word of great consequence’? I said in the conference, I read the Sparks passage that Julie got that called it ‘a word of great consequence’. Julie, what are you feeling about that now that the conference is over?
(Julie) Well, as we were sitting here this morning, it just seemed to come really clear that this, in simple, simple form, the ‘word of great consequence’ is that God is God. And I just see all of this, Martha, as this is the essence of the message that the Lord has been sculpting in you for forty years. I mean it started in “The Great Lie”, Carole pointed out that that was the booklet that we opened with, that opened us in a sense, more than we realized. I, honestly, I thought it was just me, but I have been just quietly praising God through the conference and since then, that I feel like I’m hearing Him in you, really. I mean, really, really hearing Him in you. Because you’ve been telling us, telling me, I can’t speak for anybody else, but I think so, you’ve been telling us these things about putting off the old man for years. But it’s like there’s some kind of power in it all of a sudden. Certainly for my life, I don’t know about for others, but I sense it is for others. I sense that the Lord is sending this out with power, because all of a sudden it is penetrating the depths of me. And, I don’t know, it’s just, it’s just clear all of a sudden, and there’s some kind of power to enter into it that… I can remember that you’ve been saying these things for years, but I obviously didn’t enter into it like it seems possible now. I just really praise Him.  I feel like it is a presence of Him in some sense, going out. And as far as the ‘word of great consequence’, I just see that this one simple thing, if we can get it, this is a vital provision for the times that we live in right now. Like what Jacquelyn read earlier, that He’s bringing to climax all things in Christ. And to get that God is God over my whole life and being, to get, to accept the plan of God, and I don’t know.  I don’t have the words for it at this point. But I just see that the ‘word of great consequence’ is that, that God is God.
(J) Well, I’m seeing that you’ve called me, and have been calling me to believe in the new man for years. And there has really been a block to that. And it has been really a frustration for you, you know, but there has been a veil, and I feel like it’s been penetrated. And now I can see something so clear, that I have struggled with the entire time.
(M) You know, John, I can see something. In my new man I have a vision for each of you, of who you are. And the frustration is, and it has been a long suffering frustration, because you don’t… it’s hard to see that there is such a spectacular person in the one I know. Because I don’t think anyone that is in this group, those who’ve come in for self, would not die to self, have left. But I, I always know that I see… I can step down and see the old man, and deal with it in all of you. But the sustaining thing I have is, in my new man I have a vision of your new man. And I will not give up.
(J) And I think that that is the new man in you (Martha says yes) that will, that refuses to believe in the old man in us. And that is because the new man is Christ, and Christ is…
(M) Never discouraged.
(J) Which is amazing.