Episode #160 _{^{(Click to Listen)}}

With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Carole, Jennifer and Julie

(Carole) I was just going to say about the first skit, when Julie was talking about ‘I hear’, and in that skit when Martha was just ‘in the old man’, and portraying the old man, and I stood there, she couldn’t hear anything. She would not stop talking. And I just, I realized that that is what I have always done in the old man. I’ve been so full of my own agenda that I couldn’t, I couldn’t hear what the Lord was saying. And it was very poignant, that was a very… and the frustration of the one like you who has been in the new man to bring us into when we would not settle down, be still and quiet enough, in our hysteria.
(J) Hmhmm, hmhmm.
(Carole) We wouldn’t leave the old man.
(M) When He gave me the picture of that skit it was to express the thoughts that we don’t admit to, and the struggle in the thought of trying to… of never being able to change this old man. And the talking was the constant talking of the old man, hearing Satan, trying ‘not to’, trying ‘to be’ not being able to. It was, yeah, it was… I said to all of you earlier that this message, this word of great consequence is that God is God, and there is no other. That is a word that will not be believed or received at large, because it means that God… It’s perfectly clear in the scripture, and I have a book about it; it’s perfectly clear. He permitted the suffering of Job. He allowed the parameters of Satan’s attack on Job, and they were hideous. Those boundaries just took everything Job had; even struck his own body. And we do not want God to be that powerful. We want to have power, and we don’t want Him to be the author of calamity as it says here. That is a hard God to accept, for this old man. The new man is perfectly at peace with it. He is God and that is my comfort, my hope and my healing and my resurrection life. But I came to that belief, that faith, for this conference. I knew He was sovereign, that was a tremendous work He did in my life. But I have… only Norman Grubb have I ever heard say “there is no Satan”, and “there is no man.” And I read it into the, into the tapes. But I know that that message will be opposed violently.
(J) The old man but would oppose this message completely.  You would rather discount it as being lunacy than to embrace this.
(M) The old man is ‘I am god’, and I will decide who God is.
(J) And to hear that Satan has no power, that man has no power, when I’ve so believed in the power of the old man to defeat me, to take me out. You know, its, its kind of like Jen’s schizophrenic thing, you just say, “Oh well, they’re mentally ill.” You know?  But there is an old nature, and there is a new nature, and the Word specifically says it. And it says to put off that old nature. You can call it lunacy, but the Word specifically says it.
(Jennifer) Ok, uhmm, the old man will not accept that this life is fleeting, because it’s all it has.
(J) Oooooooo.
(Jennifer) When, ok, ok, ok, you’re saying that this message is going to be opposed, that God is God. And one of the biggest things is that people say, and it’s the biggest objection… You know, if God is really God then He’s not good, because look at all He allows to happen. Ok?  But it says over and over again in the Bible that this life is, it’s but a moment. You know, that there’s eternity over here. And it was actually Mickey Brant at the conference.  That was one of the things she said to me.  She said, “ I have asked for all my rewards in the next life because that is eternal; this is a fleeting moment, this is nothing, it’s a drop.” But see, the old man hears that and goes what are you talking about? This is your life! What about your legacy? What are you gonna do? And I know that because that’s the voice that goes off in panic, you know, whenever I think about…Well honestly, whenever you talk about Christ’s return or you know, how close is it or not. You know my old man’s like, ‘oh, my gosh’! You know, and just (Laughter), freaks out, claws on the wall, and it’s like, but I’m only 33, I haven’t lived, you know? And it’s this kind of like this, this is all I’ve got, you know? And so the idea that God would come in… And with Job, I mean, didn’t Job’s family die? Gone?
(J) Gone.
(Jennifer) You know, and then Job’s suffering and, and, and, the idea that ahmm, like my old man looks at that and says ‘so He just played with his life like that’. He didn’t care about his children; He didn’t care about his family, blah, blah, blah. Because this life is, is… the old man is just holding onto it with everything because it is all it’s got. This life is all that matters, so anything that threatens that life, and the possibility of happiness in this life, it’s not fleeting to the old man.  It simply is, it is the most important. I don’t know, I just…
(M) And Jennifer, that’s why when the old man is attacked by God there’s screaming and the despair and the disappointment, because our faith in the old man’s ability and righteousness is being destroyed by the cross that attacks. And there is that fit we pitch. And the Lord used to say to me, “You’re just wanting this just because you have faith in yourself.” And I think brother Lawrence is just the epitome of an example of that;  that he would say, “Oh, forgive me,” and go on, because he didn’t have any hope in the old man. He had no hope in himself at all, only in Christ. He came to it. You don’t, you don’t, you could get it, but we don’t. So, thank you for that rendition of the… what you really were on was worldliness. The old man is vested, tied to the world.
(J) Yes.  Vested is a good word. Hmhmm.
(M) And not only does the old man have hope in himself, he has hope in the world. But when…The new man lives transcendent to everything that’s going on in the world, not in, not affected by it. And the evidence of that is, as I said at the conference, is Joseph, Daniel, Joshua. I suddenly saw that Moses represented, I’ve always said this, the best that humanity could be, but that won’t take you in. Moses died short of the goal, though he had been exemplary. He had been long-suffering, and he had been enabled by God to lead, but he was the old man. He stands for the old man. Joshua stands for the new man. And so when he went in he had to be encouraged, because he was weak. The new man knows only weakness. The old man knows only strength. And I stumbled across Hannah’s prayer.  It’s just sprinkled throughout the Scripture, ‘not by might, not by power, but by My Spirit’. And Hannah, once she had Samuel, said, “by strength shall no man prevail”. She had prevailed by prayer and weakness and agony and need, and she had given birth to a man of God who would sustain Israel through his whole life; he was the force of holiness that sustained Israel.
(Julie) The thing that has been amazing… You’ve been saying for a long time that the book of Daniel has ‘got you’. And ah, I feel like we’ve witnessed that. And in this conference the… It’s almost like the Lord has kind of sent up a flare to show us the vision. You know, it doesn’t seem like… In some ways it doesn’t seem like, well, ok, we’re in the end-times, and there’s all these crisis going on, and all this stuff pending, and maybe all this stuff coming, and whatever, whatever, whatever. But, but these issues that you’re dealing with are the provision, the way to come through. You said at the beginning of the conference that you had kind of one thing for the weekend.  You wanted us to look up. And it seems like we have watched the Lord work out something in your body literally, physically, but also in your faith that has sort of sent up a flare of a bigger picture and a way up.
(J) And the other thing, in the messages I heard you say that Tozer said in his office, he said, “look down”, because you’re to look down from the heavenlies. And I’m just, that’s just struck me. And the new man can do that, look down. It’s not a, it’s not an involvement.  It’s a seeing from where you are.  The Reality, the real Truth is that you’re seated with Christ now, no matter how you feel.
(M) I keep thinking of an experience I had some years ago. I was just simply at a church meeting of Charles Carrin. And I was just walking down the hall, not particularly… I wasn’t  praying or anything, just kind of looking at the Lord. And I had a vision so vivid that I was looking down at on the principalities and powers, and they were all under my authority. It was a tremendous swirl, like a pit of snakes. It was a horrible thing. But in that view of looking down on it, I knew that the whole thing was under my authority and Christ’s authority. It was absolutely real that I was looking down even on the warfare. Now, it took some time and lots of suffering to work that out in me. And I don’t know if I have it yet, that not only are we up there, but we’re reigning. We could, if we would believe, we are with Christ’s reign. His reign is in us. And it says, “all things are under Him, we do not yet see that all things are under Him”, but He must continue until His enemy is under His feet. But the reality of who we are, we have no real concept unless God gives it to us. Even the new man, we don’t know. In remembering that authority, when He gave me… He just showed me that I could have the authority because of what He’s wrought in me about rejection, that I could have the authority to break the yoke over everyone who would receive it. And sort of when I began to pray that at the conference, it was like Martha left the room, and I was really largely unaware of what was going on. I could hear the weeping but…. Jennifer told me yesterday what she saw.
(Jennifer) From my vantage point in the back of the room… Right after Martha broke it, literally said, “I’m breaking the stronghold of rejection over everyone here.” It was instantaneous. I literally saw at least half the people in the room burst into tears. There was worshipping, whatever, but it was a ripple effect, and it was immediate. And I’ve never seen anything like it. There was nothing ah… Ok, it was the first time I’ve ever seen a reaction of a Body, a people, that there was, it was just, there was no…. Oh, what’s the word I’m looking for? None of the sensational, none of the spectacular, none of the, you know what I mean? And I’m not accusing, good grief, anyone of searching after that or saying, you know, there was that at the conference. I’m just saying that in my experience there’s always been a question mark, you know, with these sorts of things, with worship, you know, is it spontaneous? Is it really from Him? There just was no question mark on this. It was something that happened so quickly and so ‘as one’ across the room, that it’s just not… That’s not how we humans work; you know what I mean? We usually work like ‘the wave’ in a baseball stadium; somebody starts and somebody else looks and says, oh, good idea, wheeee. And this was not… This was literally something happening in everyone at the same time. And in my experience that’s how God works, because He’s coming at every individual.  But it’s like you said, separate first, then united in that under Him. And that was the ripple effect I saw. It wasn’t like it started one place and spread. It was literally kind of a kakakakakakakak! That didn’t make any sense.
(J) No, it made perfect sense.
(M) Power of the Spirit.
(Jennifer) Right, power of the Spirit, yes. And I can’t say…I don’t know that I’ve seen that, certainly not in… I mean, I don’t have a whole lot of Body life experience, so… But it just, I mean, it rocked me. And I mean I burst into tears at that point, just because I’d never seen anything like that before. And it was just palpable; it was palpable.